Teri, help with midi and Sonar 6/7 producer please?

[Danny Danzi]

Hi Teri, (or Rim if you read this or anyone else that may know)

Since you seem to be the one answering most of the tech questions here, I was wondering if you could spare a moment of your time please with a few questions?

1. As of now, I have no problems with Drumagog at all other than not being able to make the midi part of it work at all. I have the midi yoke set-up and it's been added as a midi driver in Sonar etc, but I'm still not getting it to trigger. Can you please tell me the steps to take in order to make Drumagog work with Sonar Producer 6/7 when you get a minute please? I've read all I could about this and still can't make it work. Is there a more in depth way and is something possibly missing in the help files? I've never had a problem making something work unless I'm either mis-reading something, or the person offering the help file has missed adding some information. This is really driving me nuts.

2. Will Drumagog work somewhat like a sampler in midi mode? Meaning, if it's hooked up right, if I did a split notes to track for my midi drums and converted the master midi track to all individual tracks of the drum kit I used, would I be able to add an instance of Drumagog and have it trigger the samples inside it from my midi tracks? This would be awesome if it was possible. Currenly, I do a split notes to tracks to have full control over each midi drum individually and then have to turn all my midi drum tracks to audio before I can use Drumagog. I know I'll have to do this anyway at some point during my project, but it sure would be cool to use it like a sampler so I can get a general idea on how things will sound before I go all through that.

3. Last question, I promise. I use a Roland V Drums kit here. Is it possible to trigger Drumagog via midi in real time? For example, can I create a midi track, open "input echo on" in the track so it's live and add an instance of Drumagog to a blank audio track and use it like a VSTi or something? Some other way to do that and make it work? I also have that DirectiXer capability as well. That supposedly allows some plugs to be used as VSTi's but I've not been very fortunate making that work either.

I'm sorry for the lengthy post, but I'm really stumped here and would love to be able to use Drumagog in these instances if it's even possible. If it is, can you please tell me the proper steps in which I could achieve results? Thanks in advance, I really appreciate it.

Sincerely,

Danny Danzi
www.dannydanzi.com
www.myspace.com/dannydanziband

[Teri]

Hi Danny,

First Question
I am sorry to hear you are having trouble with Drumagog's MIDI functionality. The user's guide has detailed information about MIDI starting on p. 67 with detailed MIDI Yoke instructions starting on p. 69. Since you stated having MIDI Yoke, I assume you are working on a PC. Is it also safe to assume you are working to trigger another virtual instrument with Drumagog's MIDI Output? Follow these instructions to use Drumagog's MIDI Output :

1. Download and install a virtual MIDI cable program. A free program called Midi Yoke does a good job (www.midiox.com).
2. Enable MIDI output on Drumagog’s advanced tab.
3. On Drumagog’s MIDI port drop-down box, choose your virtual MIDI cable port (for example MIDI Yoke Port 1).
4. Choose a MIDI note and channel.
5. On your virtual instrument, choose the same MIDI port (MIDI Yoke Port 1), note and channel number.

Make sure the channel and note numbers correspond on Drumagog and the virtual instrument. When Drumagog detects information on an audio track, for example, it changes the audio information to output MIDI. The virtual instrument then triggers a sample based on the received MIDI information.

Second Question
Good Question. Drumagog functions in this manner with audio because of the dynamic tracking and dynamic group function. Drumagog detects dB changes in the waveform and trigger a specific sample group. In addition, the trigger filter has the ability to isolate digital audio frequencies.

Because MIDI information is composed of digital data (or channel messages), Drumagog cannot detect these types of changes within digital data. For example, a user has a MIDI recording of an entire kit on one track. Drumagog cannot isolate and replace the snare in this track. However it can detect its presence, which enables Drumagog to be triggered by MIDI. You can work with it whichever way you are comfortable, even by splitting your master track to individual tracks.

Third Question
You can certainly trigger Drumagog in real time. The Live Triggering Engine setting in the Advanced Tab is for this purpose. Since Drumagog works with MIDI or audio, insert it appropriately on a track and it triggers when it detects audio/MIDI information. Drumagog functions the exact same way as a VST instrument or plug-in.

I hope this helps. If you have any more questions, you can email us at support@drumagog.com.

Best Regards,
Teri Grossheim
WaveMachine Labs, Inc.

[Danny Danzi]

Thanks a lot Teri, I will try everything you commented on. I really appreciate the in depth response.

Sincerely,

Danny Danzi
www.dannydanzi.com
www.myspace.com/dannydanziband

[Danny Danzi]

Hi Teri,

I wanted to let you know I got everything working just as you had mentioned in your replies to me. Thanks for the quick and informative information.

I did have one other question though if I may? I can only get Drumagog to trigger in real time (while playing my Roland V Drums kit) or while triggering midi when I use a drum instrument along with it.

For example, I have a track of midi on track 1 in Sonar 7. I create a blank audio track on track 2 and load up Drumagog, set all the midi channels etc and nothing works on it. If I bring in a softsynth or multi-purpose soft synth like Cakewalk TTS-1, Drumagog works perfectly. Same with real time use, there has to be a module of some kind teamed up with Drumagog for it to work in real time. Is this the way it's supposed to work?

Do I always have to have an external sound module loaded with Drumgog in a track insert like this? Or is there a way to make Drumagog work by itself as the only vst in my track insert? Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,

Danny Danzi
www.dannydanzi.com
www.myspace.com/dannydanziband

[Teri]

Danni,

I hope I interpret your question correctly. Drumagog functions as a stand alone VST (and RTAS, AU) plug-in. Drumagog works with samples (GOG format, .wav, .aif, .sdII) and well as external sound modules. In your example, did you try inserting Drumagog in the MIDI track 1 and loading a sample? The MIDI information triggers samples within Drumagog. There is no need to create the blank audio track unless you have some special routing going on.

Did you buy Drumagog from a store or our website? There is a free 4GB sample library with any purchase of Basic, Pro, or Platinum. The library is included on the DVD installer or it can be downloaded from our website.

Let me know if I can answer any more questions.

Best Regards,
Teri Grossheim
WaveMachine Labs, Inc.

[Danny Danzi]

Hi Teri, thanks for the reply. Drumagog can't be applied to a midi track in Sonar unless it is placed on a blank audio track...unless I'm missing something?

If I try to right click on a midi track to insert effects, there are no selections for any type of dx or VSTi available like I have provided for you in this example. My midi track is on track one. When I right click where I'd put effects, this is what I see.

If I insert Drumagog on a blank audio track, it will become available in my midi output dropdown box. This is the only way I know of to where I can make Drumagog correspond with a midi track. But when I do this, it will not trigger. I have to use a VSTi first on the blank audio track, and then place Drumagog after it to make it trigger sounds.

Yes, I purchased the full version from your site and have the large sampling library as well as Supersonic Samples, Steve Slate, Fairview and all the other rock samples that were available.

This is what happens when I try to place Drumagog directly on a midi track as you have advised.

[Teri]

Danni,

You are correct. I am sorry I offered the wrong information. It seems that only Cakewalk MIDI Effects/Plugs can be used in Sonar.

Back to your issue -

For example, I have a track of midi on track 1 in Sonar 7. I create a blank audio track on track 2 and load up Drumagog, set all the midi channels etc and nothing works on it. If I bring in a softsynth or multi-purpose soft synth like Cakewalk TTS-1, Drumagog works perfectly. Same with real time use, there has to be a module of some kind teamed up with Drumagog for it to work in real time. Is this the way it's supposed to work?

Do I always have to have an external sound module loaded with Drumgog in a track insert like this? Or is there a way to make Drumagog work by itself as the only vst in my track insert? Thanks in advance.

You do not have to have a module teamed up with Drumagog for it to function. Drumagog does function as a real-time MIDI (and audio) plug-in, but you are limited with Sonar's parameters. With the external module, or a soft synth, Drumagog is triggering because it is detecting the MIDI/audio information.

You state that the MIDI is track 1, and that you insert Drumagog on audio track 2. Does the MIDI information translate to the "audio" track? Can you see the acutal MIDI information after settng the MIDI channels appropriately? Perhaps it is not triggering here because it cannot detect any MIDI information due to this.

It seems you can only choose a MIDI or audio track in Sonar. If it offered some sort of instrument track option, we could try this configuration for your situation.

If Sonar allowed third party MIDI plug-ins directly, we wouldn't have this issue

Best Regards,
Teri Grossheim
WaveMachine Labs, Inc.

[Danny Danzi]

Hi Teri,

Thanks once again for the reply. Well it appears no matter what I try, Drumagog will not trigger any midi on its own. I have Sonar versions 5 through 7 (all producer edtitions) and even with the correct midi note number and channel, there is no activity read by Drumagog. But as soon as I insert a soft synth like I mentioned before and insert Drumagog under the soft synth on the same track, it works instantly.

I even tried this program called Dxizer I think it's called. This allows dx plugs and Vst plugs to be forced into being soft synths. Though it's worked for me using other plug ins, it didn't work for Drumagog. So I don't know what else to try at this point to make it a stand-alone in conjunction with midi.

Sincerely,

Danny Danzi
www.dannydanzi.com
www.myspace.com/dannydanziband

[Teri]

Danni,

Drumagog should function fine with DirectiXer. I should have stated this earlier in my posts. I assumed that you already took this step. Visit this link for more information: http://www.drumagog.com/sonar.asp

Best Regards,
Teri Grossheim
WaveMachine Labs, Inc.

[Danny Danzi]

Teri,

Thanks for your patience and help. I noticed one important thing in the link info you posted. "Send MIDI to host through loopback driver". I don't believe I used that option when I tried dxizer last time. That was probably why it didn't work. I'll try it later tonight and post back to you on if it worked or not. Thanks again for everything...the support and time you've given to me are really appreciated.

Sincerely,

Danny Danzi
www.dannydanzi.com
www.myspace.com/dannydanziband

[Danny Danzi]

Hi Teri,

I tried the stuff mentioned in that link. Safe to say you may want to update that stuff a bit. For example, I can't find this anywhere on my version of Drumagog. Must be for an older version?

"5. At the top of the Drumagog window, make sure "Send MIDI to host through loopback driver" is enabled. This is the button with a picture of two notes."

Also, those help notes don't say how Drumagog should be configured in the options of DirectiXer once it's been created in that program's window. Is Drumagog supposed to be forced into being a VSTi, or do we just add it in the DirectiXer program and don't touch a thing options wise within that program?

I still can't get this to work unless I have a VSTi on the same track as Drumugog. It does not trigger midi on my end by itself in any way. Trust me when I tell you, I like to consider myself an advanced power user when it comes to stuff like this, so I'm not new at configuring things.

I've always been under the impression that Drumagog would work like a sampling program would work using midi. Select the channel, note number and it should work. It doesn't work for me using this method amd I'm positive I'm doing everything correctly. Now I know why I stated in my last reply "one important thing in the link you posted...send midi to host through loopback driver". This option does not exist for me anywhere.

Also, there are 2 versions of Drumagog in my plug ins folder. One just says Drumagog, the other says Drumagog Fixed latency. Which one of those would need to be brought into DirectiXer, and what options need to be implemented inside that program? I've tried every possible combination and have failed. Drumagog doesn't seem to trigger midi at all as a stand-alone for versions of Sonar 5 through 7 unless there is a VSTi inserted in front of it in an effects return on an empty audio track.

If I'm missing something here, I'll gladly try anything at this point. But so far, I can't trigger it in real time using my Roland V Drums, and I can't use it as a sound source to trigger midi at all. The only way I can use Drumagog is when all midi has been turned into audio. Surely there has t be someone on this board that is using Sonar? If so, any luck using this for midi?

Sincerely,

Danny Danzi
www.dannydanzi.com
www.myspace.com/dannydanziband